Repco Red Coolant Concentrate 5L - Premium coolant with a longer service life than traditional coolant. Repco's Red Coolant is safe for all vehicles which require a premium, organic (OAT) Type A red coolant. Popular manufacturers which require this coolant include Audi, BMW, Ford, Holden, Hyundai, Jeep, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes Benz, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Subaru, Toyota, Volvo and more.Genuine Toyota "RED" Long Life Coolant (LLC) - 5 Litre can, Pre-Mixed.. Comes Pre-mixed to Toyota's spec of -36°F, just add straight into the cooling system. You can top up with water however you will dilute the concentrate. LLC also protects your engine from corrosion a common complaint with cast engine blocks, it also helps keep an engine cool in hot conditions.From Amazon. Zerex 675130 Asian Vehicle Anitfreeze / Coolant - Gallon $16. silicate free HOAT formula with a phosphate additive. Zerex ZXEL1 DEX-COOL Antifreeze / Coolant - Gallon $18. European manufacturers phosphate-free and Asian manufacturers silicate-free. Toyota Genuine Fluid 00272-SLLC2 Long Life Coolant - 1 Gallon $24.- For a layman, the easiest way to distinguish a conventional coolant from a long-life coolant is that conventional coolant concentrate would look green and opaque, while long life coolant would be clear and most importantly, oily to touch - Toyota's coolant has an initial drain interval of 1.6L km and every 80K km thereafterBoth are compatible with my vehicle (KZJ95R-1KZTE), though the Aisin’s version is quite significantly cheaper. However, what I am most interested in, is that the Aisin’s coolant boiling point (129°C) is also much higher than the Toyota red (108°C). Because of the fine balance that the cooling system in the 1KZTE’s is known for, I am ...Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant. Genuine Toyota Super Long-Life Antifreeze/Coolant is the same high quality, factory-fill product found in new Toyota Vehicles. You'll know it by its distinctive pink color. It provides maximum protection and durability without the use of harmful silicates. And because it's compatible with non-metallic ...25% OFF For New Users! - Buy TOYOTA Super Long Life Anti Freeze Coolant (1L, Red) at lowest prices in Bangladesh. Express Home Delivery in Dhaka, CTG & CountrywideDec 24, 2013 · The largest 4Runner community in the world. I picked up a jug of Toyota Long Life red (not pink) coolant. The label does not say whether it is a concentrate or pre-mixed, but the ingredients does not contain "water" so I am assuming this is a concentrate.Unknown member Discussion starter. #2 · Dec 8, 2005. I don't care what you put in it...change the coolant every 2 years or. 30,000 and you'll avoid costly repairs. I used to work at a auto service. center and almost every car manufactorer who claims they have "long life. coolant" is full of you know what.Toyota Long Life Red coolant. This is for use in any Toyota coolant system. Toyota recommends changing the coolant every 36 months. Color: Red. NOT Premixed must add de-mineralized water. Brand: Genuine. Sold as: Each. Fits- Toyota Avalon. Toyota Camry. Toyota Celica. Toyota Corolla. Toyota Corona. Toyota Cressida. Toyota Echo. Toyota FJ Cruiser.Toyota Long Life Coolant-(RED) Made in Japan -Factory filled red fluid specially formulated for Toyota vehicles. -New generation ethylene-glycol based premium engine antifreeze/coolant. -Provides excellent corrosion protection. Toyota Super Long Life Coolant TMO(PINK) Made in Indonesia -50/50 Permixed -New formula to provide better protection -Suitable For all type Car -No need add water - Buy ...I switched to Prestone All Makes on my gen 1 Tacoma since the local dealer now wanted $19 a gallon for Toyota red and Prestone was about $8. I have never looked back. BTW I never bought into the 100K mile coolant replacement BS either. I agree 100%. there's no difference in the quality in a coolant being red to green.Hey guys! My wifes 2012 fusion 2.5 is coming up on 90k and I'm wanting to do a coolant flush on it. I have PLENTY of Toyota Long Life (red) and Super Long Life (pink) coolant. Would these be acceptable to use in the Fusion? I would think so as Toyota and Subaru coolants tend to be top tier. Or...32.02mi. 684 S. Weber Road. Romeoville, IL 60446. (815) 744-2760. Shop this Dealer. Search your area for a dealer in order to purchase product. ZIP Code*. View Dealers.Aug 26, 2013 · The colors are ONLY for ease in identification of the coolants because certain auto manufacturers used certain colors. Toyota uses Red (concentrated) or Pink (diluted). The Toyota Red is forward compatible to the newer years as well. The Toyota Pink is not backwards compatible for the older years, like our Camrys.Photo credit: EvelynGiggles. The manufacturer of your car requires a certain type of coolant for a reason. Their recommended coolant has the right combination of chemicals that …Genuine Toyota "RED" Long Life Coolant (LLC) - 5 Litre can, Pre-Mixed. Comes Pre-mixed to Toyota's spec of -36°F, just add straight into the cooling system. You can top up with water however you will dilute the concentrate. LLC also protects your engine from corrosion a common complaint with cast engine blocks, it also helps keep an engine ...US states along the Gulf of Mexico are already struggling with a toxic algae bloom killing marine life. The coming hurricane could make things worse. There’s usually not even a sli...A new generation of ethylene glycol-based coolant, Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant is pre-diluted 50:50 with de-ionized water for freeze protection to -34F. Long-life hybrid organic acid technology was used to create a coolant that is non-silicate, non-amine, non-nitrite, and non-borate. Mazda FL22 Mazda FL22 is your initial choice.GENUINE OEM TOYOTA LEXUS SCION LONG LIFE RED ANTIFREEZE 00272-1LLAC-01. THE USE OF NON-GENUINE COOLANTS WILL CORRODE THE PARTS AND GRADUALLY BLOCK THE COOLING SYSTEM, DAMAGING THE ENGINE. ... Toyota red coolant. The best coolant for Toyota trucks. Superior mix, QC, and composition. Toyota red coolant. The best coolant for Toyota trucks.Nulon Green Premium Long Life Coolant 100% Concentrate(LL) offers long-term cooling system protection for all motor vehicles. Nulon Long Life Coolant is based on Hybrid Additive Technology (HAT), which is a blend of organic and inorganic additives. The advantage of this product over conventional ethylene glycol type coolants is that the …You can find the exact service intervals for the 2008 Highlander coolant here, at Toyota's online maintenance schedule for the Highlander. Toyota recommends replacement of engine coolant at 100,000 miles, then at 50,000 mile intervals thereafter. The coolant in your Toyota does not last forever and will deteriorate through a combination of ...About the Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. In 2002, super long life coolant Toyota was released to replace the Toyota red coolant product. This 2nd gen nti-freeze has a pink color. Providing an excellent long-life hybrid organic acid technology , it is a premium engine antifreeze. Its function is to cool the engines and to avoid the situation ...Trade name/designation : Toyota Long Life Coolant Pre-Mixed Red 1.2. Relevant identified uses of the substance or mixture and uses advised against Specific use(s) : Coolant 1.3. Details of the supplier of the safety data sheet Company : Toyota Motor Europe Bourgetlaan 60 1140 -Brussel, Belgium Telephone:+32 (0)2 745 21 11 Fax:+32 (0)2 745 20 67Looking at the image on Amazon for the "Toyota Super Long Life Coolant" says meets ASTM specs D3306. Looked at the "SuperTech Pre-diluted 50/50 Antifreeze/Coolant" and also says meets ASTM specs D3306. ... Decades ago, before Toyota pink and red, coolant was coolant and even Toyotas all used the same green-color ethylene glycol. Thing is, that ...The Asian coolant comes in two colors, reddish (for Toyota et. al.), and blueish (for certain other Asian brands of vehicles). Chemically they're the same except the dye colors, but using blue might lead to confusion and questions later, depending on who's looking at it. #5 CR94, Jan 18, 2023.NAPA's Asian Red is specifically designed for use in Asian vehicles requiring a RED phosphate-enhanced organic technology (POAT). It provides service life protection of up to 5 years or 150,000 miles with a complete cooling system flush and fill. Engineered for Use In: Lexus: 1990 and up, Scion: 2004 and up, Toyota: 1990 and up.Genuine Toyota "RED" Long Life Coolant (LLC) - 5 Litre can, Pre-Mixed.. Comes Pre-mixed to Toyota's spec of -36°F, just add straight into the cooling system. You can top up with water however you will dilute the concentrate. LLC also protects your engine from corrosion a common complaint with cast engine blocks, it also helps keep an engine cool in hot conditions.The toyota tech was telling me the Super Long Life is for vehicles 2004 and after with alluminum radiators and the Long Life is for vehicles older than 2004. So i picked up Long Life and mixed it myself for my 98 Tacoma only to later realize that they're the same. islanti, Aug 25, 2016. #3. Aug 26, 2016 at 2:08 AM.Toyota Long Life Red coolant. This is for use in any Toyota coolant system. Toyota recommends changing the coolant every 36 months. Color: Red. NOT Premixed must add de-mineralized water. Brand: Genuine. Sold as: Each. Fits- Toyota Avalon. Toyota Camry. Toyota Celica. Toyota Corolla. Toyota Corona. Toyota Cressida. Toyota Echo. Toyota FJ Cruiser.Some dealbreakers announce themselves the minute you walk through the door—or even before. As a prospective home buyer, the open house stage of shopping is usually the most fun. Yo...The recently released film, “Red Joan,” has been making waves in the movie industry with its intriguing portrayal of espionage and betrayal. Based on a true story, the movie follow...Genuine Toyota OEM Long Life Red Coolant Antifreeze 1 Gallon 00272-1LLAC-01 Specifications . More Information; Note: This item can only can ship out with UPS Ground shipping: Shipping Weight (Dimensional) 9.900000: Clearance Sale: No: Availability: Call: Part Type: Antifreeze and Coolant: Make: Toyota / Lexus: Brand:TOYOTA Long Life Coolant 1Litre Long Life Antifreeza Tangki Coolant Kereta Radiator Coolant Kereta 1Litre. COD. Local Seller. RM 12.80. RM 32.00-60%. 53 sold. ... MOTION COOLANT CONCENTRATED 100% LONG LIFE COOLANT Radiator 1L RED car motorcycle toyota honda perodua proton nissan. RM6 off. COD. RM 16.72. RM 33.44-50%. 164 sold.OEM Ready-to-Use Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant Pink is specifically formulated for Toyota, Scion and Lexus vehicles and is suitable for hybrid & electric models. ... OEM 50/50 Premixed Anti-Freeze/Coolant, Toyota/Lexus/Scion, Pink /Rose, 3.78-L #029-3083-8 ... MotoMaster Long-Life Global 50/50 Premixed Anti-Freeze/Coolant, 3.78-L. 4.6 (94)The Toyota pink Super Long Life Coolant’s formula was altered by the Valvoline brand to become a 50/50 Pre-Mixed Formula Antifreeze, emphasizing the position of the automaker. The advantage is that you may purchase the same product with almost exact ingredients for almost half of what you would have to pay a Toyota dealer.Also helping guard against rust and corrosion, red antifreeze is suitable for a wide variety of makes and models. Check Stock. TRIPLE QX Red Ready Mixed Antifreeze/Coolant 1Ltr Product Code: 523770512. (36) Best Seller. In Stock Orders placed before 15:00 Mon-Fri. Specialist delivery charges apply to this item*. £6.29.The presence of red tide in Florida’s coastal waters has become a recurring concern for residents, tourists, and marine life alike. Red tide refers to the phenomenon caused by the ...Unlike the red coolant, the long-lasting pink coolant also comes diluted, so it's known to last significantly longer. Initially, Toyota mentioned that its pink variant could last up to 100,000 ...Before 2004 for most models, Toyota used a red-dyed, concentrated coolant with a 30,000 mile change interval, called Long Life Coolant. Because it comes in a pure concentrate, it must be diluted with water before you put it in your engine. Dilution is important to get right – too much coolant reduces the ability to cool the engine, too little ...Buy Toyota Genuine Parts - Genuine Fluid 00272-1LLAC-01 Long Life Coolant - 1 Gallon (002721LLAC01): Antifreezes & Coolants - Amazon.com FREE …I think pink is also a HOAT and probably the same formula as red, phosphate and the OAT sodium benzoate. Pink does claim a longer life for the factory-fill, ~10years/100k miles but after changing ~5 years/60K miles. And red I think had the claim of 5year/60K miles. So both we're extended life coolant vs. green.OEM Recochem 86-384ROEMT Red Premium Antifreeze 50/50 Extended Life RED. 4.6 out of 5 stars 129. $42.99 $ 42. 99. Next page. Top Brand: Toyota . Highly Rated. 100K+ customers rate items from this brand highly. Trending. 1K+ orders for this brand in past 3 months. Low Returns. Customers usually keep items from this brand. Product …Carbon monoxide is a silent killer that many fall victim to each year. The plug-in Kidde 900-0076-01 KN-COPP-3 carbon monoxide detector also has a battery backup and normal operati...New generation ethylene-glycol based premium engine antifreeze/coolant that offers excellent corrosion protection. Contains water, ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, sebacic acid, & potassium hydroxide. Protects from -34ºF to 265ºF (using a 15 lb. psi pressure cap) Meets all Toyota warranty requirements & ASTM Specs.Toyota vehicles manufactured in 2014 and onwards have been using the pink-colored coolant, also known as “super long life 50/50.” Before that, all vehicles contained the red “long life” coolant. Mixing in an incompatible coolant may result in mild to severe engine issues, such as misfires, engine stalls, poor transmission, or dead engines.Also helping guard against rust and corrosion, red antifreeze is suitable for a wide variety of makes and models. Check Stock. TRIPLE QX Red Ready Mixed Antifreeze/Coolant 1Ltr Product Code: 523770512. (36) Best Seller. In Stock Orders placed before 15:00 Mon-Fri. Specialist delivery charges apply to this item*. £6.29.Find Toyota Genuine Radiator Coolant Pink-Red Super Long Life TMO - 4L for sale at Pakistan's best automotive portal. Buy and Sell Toyota Genuine Radiator Coolant Pink-Red Super Long Life TMO - 4L online ... Genuine Toyota Super Long-Life Antifreeze/Coolant is the same high quality, factory-fill product found in new Toyota Vehicles. You'll ...1: drain coolant via banjo bolts on block as well as radiator. 2: pour in distilled water and run engine a bit and drain again. 3:fill with 50/50 Dist H20 and Long Life ( I have an 02). 4: run with cap off to bleed air. 5: fill overflow until level is correct.Which One Is Better: Toyota Long Life Coolant and Toyota Super Long Life Coolant? It depends on the model year of your Toyota vehicle. If your Toyota car is older than model 2004, you should use the red coolant since it contains ingredients that will protect the metal components of the radiator.It appears the Pentofrost product is the only product that markets being a replacement for the Toyota Red coolant (using Toyota PN: 00272-1LLAC. They also …TOYOTA GENUINE LONG LIFE COOLANT Capacity: 1 LITRE Ingredients: 100% Coolant(Need to mix with water, 50/50 ratio.) Product Description: Provide excellent cooling system, freezing protection down to -37ºC & boiling protection to 108 ºC. Instruction : Follow vehicle manufacturing's recommendations when replacing or adding coolant.Nulon Red Premium Long Life Coolant 100% Concentrate (RLL) provides the ultimate anti-freeze/anti-boil and corrosion protection for most late model vehicles, including petrol, diesel and heavy duty diesel applications. Red Long Life Coolant incorporates the most up to date Organic Additive Technology (OAT) carboxylate corrosion inhibitors.Male. In summary this is what it says: "Toyota recommends Genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze Coolant (factory red fluid) as the first choice when maintaining your vehicle. Toyota coolant was developed to meet the specific requirements of our engines and provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates.Year Make Model Trim Engine Notes; 2013: Lexus: GS350: Base Sedan 4-Door: 3.5L 3456CC V6 GAS DOHC Naturally Aspirated: Mfrlabel:Genuine Engine Coolant / Antifreeze<br>1 Gallon; 6/CaseGenuine Toyota; Color: Red; Long Life; DO NOT USE with Copper or Brass radiators; NOT Premixed must add demineralised water; Please refer to the owners manual to confirm that this is the ...Pentofrost A2/GC Green/Ford FL-22 and the older Nissan/Subaru fill are examples of the older green. GC Blue/Zerex Asian Blue/Subaru Super Long Life/Nissan Blue are examples of the newer blue. Of course, you can use Zerex's red/pink Toyota equivalent or OE Toyota Red/Pink if color ain't a thing. Hino is using Toyota coolant in their trucks as well.Antifreeze & Coolant - Valvoline™ Global. Zerex G05 from Valvoline is the #1 selling OEM-approved coolant brand. Zerex G05 Antifreeze/Coolant is proven to maximize engine life in newer Ford, Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz cars, light trucks and heavy-duty vehicles. Suitable for both gasoline and diesel engines, its original long-life...The presence of red tide in Florida’s coastal waters has become a recurring concern for residents, tourists, and marine life alike. Red tide refers to the phenomenon caused by the ...There are two types of Toyota coolant. Long Life Coolant (it's red, and the right stuff for our trucks) and Super Long Life Coolant (pink, for newer models). Adam 96 LC - sold 2010 4Runner Trail. AfricanToy. Joined Mar 5, 2006 Threads 107 Messages 526 Location USA. Sep 1, 2013 #12It clearly states in my owners manual that my car requires "Toyota Long Life" coolant. What the dealers are proposing is the "Toyota Super-Long Life" pink coolant. ... Zerex Asian Red vs. Toyota Long Life Red Coolant and mixing? Spddm0n; Feb 14, 2024; Cooling System Fluids & Additives; 2 3. Replies 45 Views 5K. Mar 27, 2024. Sayjac. M. 2007 ...This is NOT the Toyota Red coolant, it is the PINK. There is a difference. Purchasing this coolant is expensive and it only comes in a 50/50 premix in my experience. #2 - Toyota Super Long Life Coolant is designed to run 150,000 miles before your first flush. It is 100,000 miles between flushes after that first one. This is why it is so expensive.Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant is a new generation ethylene glycol based coolant which is pre-diluted 50: 50 with de-ionized water for freeze protection to -34°F. Non-silicate, non-amine, non-nitrite and non-borate coolant formulated with long-life hybrid organic acid technology.Here's the ingredient label from a Toyota Long Life red coolant (not diluted) gallon container in my garage: Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1), Diethylene Glycol (111-46-6), Water (7732-18-5), Organic Acid Salt (532-32-1), Hydrated Inorganic Salt (1310-58-3). the mix contains no silicates or borates. Note that both organic and inorganic salts are ...How long does Toyota red coolant last? While Toyota recommends that their Pink Coolant should be used for the factory fill, they suggest that it can last up to 160,000 km (100,000 miles) or 10 years after this initial fill. Afterwards, the coolant needs to be changed every 100,000 km (60,000 miles) or 5 years in order to ensure maximum ...Industry leading protection from engine damaging rust, corrosion & buildup. Prestone MAX completely stops the formation of rust & corrosion for better engine performance and longer engine life. Prestone Max is guaranteed to protect your vehicle for 15+ years and/or 350,000 miles. It's the longest fluid life in the industry.Video. OEM Extended Life RED Antifreeze/Coolant meets or exceeds performance requirements ASTM D3306 and JIS K2234. It is recommended for use in Toyota/Scion/Lexus and other automotive and light duty vehicles requiring a OAT engine coolant. This ethylene glycol based antifreeze/coolant provides extended protection against rust, corrosion and ...Red Long Life Coolant from Toyota: Salted Orange Acid (532-32-1) Inorganic Salt Hydrated (1310-58-3) Which Toyota Coolant is the Longest Lasting? According to Toyota, Pink Coolant needs to be changed every 100,000 km (60,000 miles) or 5 years after the factory fill, or up to 160,000 km (100,000 miles) or 10 years.IMOHO as 1 gallon of regular red genuine TOYOTA (if you must) antifreeze is only $20. IMOHO _____ 2001 SR5 2WD Real chrome bumpers what a concept ! Reply With Quote 12-20-2005, 12:21 AM ... Even if you aren't comfortable with the full 100,000 miles on the long life coolant, changes at 30,000 are excessive (as are 3000 mile oil changes).Toyota Red is a 2-year coolant that's versatile and meant to protect bi-metal engines. It's officially called Toyota Long-Life Coolant, as Fexinus said, TLLC. Toyota started jacking up the price, now it's nearly $30/gallon concentrated. The Toyota Pink is a 5-year half-baked attempt to copy the GM Dexcool. It's only meant to be used in Gen5 ...I have leftover coolant left here so I asked if I can just use it on my other car. In the manual, both calls for ethylene glycol, silicate free coolant. Originally, the suzuki came with green coolant so I will flush it with distilled water 2-3 times before putting in the red coolant.Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19010 Long Life Coolant - 1 Gallon. 233. 50+ bought in past month. $3068 ($0.24/Fl Oz) FREE delivery May 31 - Jun 4. Only 10 left in stock - order soon.Zerex Asian Red vs. Toyota Long Life Red Coolant and mixing? Spddm0n; Feb 14, 2024; Cooling System Fluids & Additives; 2 3. Replies 45 Views 5K. Mar 27, 2024. Sayjac. M. Should I use pink or red coolant? ma6561; Feb 14, 2024; Cooling System Fluids & Additives; Replies 9 Views 2K. Feb 17, 2024. willbur. B. 2015 Kia Sedona Coolant …Use "TOYOTA Long Life Coolant" or equivalent. In addition to preventing freezing and subsequent damage to the engine, this type of coolant will also prevent corrosion. ... The very second the guage starts to go up, start filling the radiator, and I believe that car came with Toyota red coolant, but the composition is the same as the green stuff ...Toyota Long Life Red coolant. This is for use in any Toyota coolant system. Toyota recommends changing the coolant every 36 months. Color: Red. NOT Premixed must add de-mineralized water. Brand: Genuine. Sold as: Each. Fits-. Toyota Avalon.LONG LIFE COOLANT RED. Product Code: HI8-3250. Product Benefit. Extends the period between changing coolant. Passenger vehicles and light commercial transporters – 250,000kms / 5 years (whichever comes first). Heavy duty vehicles – 1,000,000km / 6 years / 12,000 hrs (with good quality water and product is used as directed) Provides maximum ...Report an issue with this product or seller. This item: Genuine 00272 SLLC2 Engine Coolant / Antifreeze. $3170. +. Set of 2 Toyota-Scion Engine Coolant / Antifreeze Genuine 00272SLLC2. $5740. +. EPAuto Spill Proof Radiator Coolant Filling Funnel Kit. $1997.100% Original Toyota Super Long Life 50 Radiator Coolant 5 Litres Red Fluid -08889-80490 ... 100% Original Toyota Super Long Life 50 Radiator Coolant 5 Litres Red Fluid -08889-80490 . SKU: 08889-80490: Brand: Toyota: Country: UAE: Vendor Code: GHY-750Z370-S: AED 76.00FAME Toyota La Piedad. Te esperamos con gusto en: Blvd. Lázaro Cárdenas No. 3036, Fracc. Camelinas, La Piedad, Michoacán C.P. 59374. Teléfono: 01 352 526 8821. toyotalapiedad.com. Tu mejor opción para adquirir un vehículo. Somos el grupo automotriz más grande de México y Latinoamérica, con más de 1600 unidades en inventario y tenemos ...Location. Ohio. Aug 9, 2010. #9. Toyota red is a 2 year coolant that contains benzoate, phosphate and molybdate etc and no silicates, nitrites or borates. It probably provides better protection for copper-brass radiators and soldier. Otherwise you could use the longer life Toyota pink or Honda type 2.What type of coolant does Toyota suggest? A new generation of ethylene glycol-based coolant, Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant is pre-diluted 50:50 with de-ionized water for freeze protection to -34F. Long-life hybrid organic acid technology was used to create a coolant that is non-silicate, non-amine, non-nitrite, and non-borate.Hi guys and gals, What do you think of the pink antifreeze installed in your 2004 or newer Tundra and it's 100,000 mile change interval. I am a Toyota technician and I have seen an unusually high number of water pump leaks with the Super Long Life Coolant (the pink stuff). Camry 4 cylinder models seem particularly affected.Toyota Red is a first gen PHOAT with Sodium Benzoate acid and Molydenum. Toyota Pink is a second gen PHOAT with Sebacic acid and almost certainly Moly. Toyota is unique as far as I know in the light vehicle market for using Moly in their coolant, most likely for water pump protection. Zerex Asian Formula is a first gen …